He does not frequent the media, but Yao Jing (Ningbo, 1969) receives EL MUNDO at the Chinese Embassy in Madrid before traveling to Beijing to prepare for the visit of the Prime Minister, Pedro Sánchez. A member of the Communist Party of his country and seasoned in the embassies of Afghanistan and Pakistan, he has been the ambassador to Spain since September 2023. He prefers the interview in English, although he is increasingly understanding Spanish. He is pleased that Spain is "a special partner" in a EU that, in his opinion, does not fully understand China and its political system.
What importance does China give to this visit by Pedro Sánchez?
We eagerly await it. It is very important to us. It is a new high-level visit after the one Pedro Sánchez made to us last September and in March 2023. It is a very frequent visit and a very good sign.
Why is it a good sign? Because we consider Spain an important country in Europe and in the world, and we can exchange views on the current international situation through dialogue, consultation, and perhaps coordination to address any global challenge or problem. At the moment, relations between Spain and China are evolving very positively. Spain is a special partner for us, and there are many issues to discuss, including the relationship between China and the EU, China and Latin America, China and Africa... Spain has a lot of influence in these areas: Europe, Latin America, and Africa. And beyond the bilateral relationship, Europe is very important to China.
What is the personal relationship between Pedro Sánchez and President Xi like?
President Sánchez will visit China at the invitation of our Prime Minister Li Qiang, who is his counterpart, but he has already met with President Xi many times since the pandemic. Our president has a very good chemistry with Sánchez. There is a relationship of trust.
Do you think Pedro Sánchez can play a supportive role for China in the European Union?
A positive role as a facilitator of understanding between China and the EU. Spain is a relevant member, and for us, the EU is very important. We consider the EU a partner, and we hope that China can achieve a relationship of respect and mutual trust. We can have enormous cooperation in the future. With Spain, we already have mutual understanding and have respected each other. In some matters, we have agreed with Spain to address differences, but there is a fundamental mutual respect. Secondly, there is mutual trust, and China has never been a threat to Spain, nor do we consider Spain a threat to us. So yes, Spain can play a very important role in fostering better understanding between China and the European Union and better cooperation in economic, cultural, social, or any other sectors. We hope that Spain continues to play this constructive or facilitating role to improve relations between China and the EU.
Last year, Sánchez turned and asked Brussels not to impose tariffs on Chinese vehicles. How important was this change of opinion to China?
Very important on several levels. Firstly, at that time, the EU was considering some form of unilateral tariff against Chinese electric vehicles due to concerns about competition with the European automotive industry. But we said that their concerns could be addressed through negotiation. Sánchez went to China, and after his meetings with Chinese companies, we explained the situation and our negotiation policy to him. After receiving our explanations, Sánchez made his own reasoning and made that announcement, which over time has proven to be correct.
How was it the right decision?
Just look at the current situation. The United States imposes unilateral tariffs, and the EU is not happy, and surely would like to negotiate. This is what China wanted to do at that time in response to a unilateral tariff from the EU. Pedro Sánchez's announcement was very reasonable and coherent. It shows that negotiation and consultation are important without using unilateral or protectionist measures. All major players in the world should follow Sánchez's advice not to use such unilateral measures. He was and is right.
But the view of China in the EU has worsened. Does this concern you?
It is too early to see the evolution. We need to consider the global environment after the decisions of the US on tariffs. We are closely following the EU's response. We understand that it needs to safeguard and protect its industries and security because it faces many challenges such as the war in Ukraine, competition with China, and the unilateral protectionism of the United States. In fact, these measures by the world's leading power affect all others. We have the same problems with their tariffs, so I believe that China and the EU are in a similar situation, and we do not think Europe should isolate itself. Of course, it has to defend its security, but it must remain open and connected.
How do you address the EU's criticisms that it needs to protect itself from China as an authoritarian country without a democratic system?
These are criticisms that stem from a misunderstanding. China cannot have a political system like Europe's. Our geopolitical situation is special, and we have a special system. Due to our history and our type of development, our political system suits us, so we disagree. Europeans have a prejudice, and intentionally or not, it could sometimes be a political tool for the EU to justify certain positions. That is why we need more dialogue and interaction with the European Union. China is not an ideological threat; we do not want to change the EU. We respect its system.
In the EU's Defense White Paper, China is seen as a threat...
There are some forces within the EU that view China as hostile, as a competitor, as an enemy. This is not good for relations between China and the EU, nor even for relations between EU countries and China. Fortunately, Spain is more neutral, so we hope that there will be increasingly more reasonable voices like that of the Spanish government in the EU and that there will be fewer prejudices against China in Europe.
Do you not believe, on the contrary, that Trump will exert more pressure on Brussels to distance itself from China?
I do not believe that the EU will blindly follow the United States in everything because Europe has a very solid foundation with clear principles such as multilateralism.
What do you think of Trump's trade policy?
That it harms the United States and that global trade and the economy will be affected. That is why I believe the EU has its own autonomy.
Do you not think that Donald Trump will pressure Spain in Latin America against China's influence?
Latin America means a lot to Spain and also to China. It is what we call the Global South because they are developing countries, like China. They pressure us, for example, in Panama, but we will never accept coercion; we prefer negotiation. It is possible that Washington will pressure Spain against China, but it also depends on Spain to have its own foreign policy. Trump cannot design the world. A few days ago, our president, Xi, met with international business leaders in Beijing and said that if you turn off other people's lights, you will not get more light for yourself. This is an interconnected world. China also wants to have good relations with the United States, but it takes two to tango.
What role does former Spanish Prime Minister José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero play for you?
When he was in power, in fact, our relationship improved, and this year we celebrated the 20th anniversary of the Comprehensive Strategic Partnership with Spain. President Zapatero enjoys our respect and continues to engage with China. He has collaborated with Chinese think tanks and participates in our forums. We appreciate his close and friendly relationship with China.
Does former President Zapatero have a role as a mediator?
He acts on a personal basis; he is not a mediator between the two governments because the relationship between them is direct and fluid. He advises me, and I benefit from his opinions. He knows Spain, knows Europe, knows a lot, and I can benefit from his opinion. Former President Zapatero is an old friend of China and has contributed to mutual understanding between the two countries.
Will there be more Chinese investments in Spain?
Yes, as long as Spain's current policy with our country continues. Pedro Sánchez pays a lot of attention, particularly to economic relations with China. By his own initiative, he wants to meet with Chinese entrepreneurs who are interested in Spain. We admire the evolution of the Spanish economy and its industrial base and infrastructure. There are many opportunities for Chinese companies. The environment in Spain helps because Chinese companies are concerned about the United States, which does not allow them to visit that country. We also invite Spanish investors to China.
There are criticisms among Spanish companies about the lack of openness of China to foreign investment...
We are trying to be more open, but our economy is not like Spain's. It is very large and very complicated. We have a large population and a great imbalance. In western China, there are very poor areas, rural areas, and in the East, very advanced areas. We cannot open everything. Spain is also not very open to China in, for example, the 5G telecommunications network. We still have a long way to go, but we are making progress. We are opening up access to agricultural products, which is important to Sánchez.
Including access to the pork sector...
There is already openness, but we will open it further. We will study the list that Spain presents to us. And not only that. We are considering sending our people to explore their markets. We will send our agricultural delegation to come to Spain to analyze what they can buy here. But sometimes, this kind of process takes a bit of time.
Why do the deadlines extend?
For example, we must persuade Chinese producers because they do not want to import too much pork because prices drop...
Another criticism is the lack of respect for intellectual property and that Chinese companies copy Spanish ones...
I insist that it is a large economy, and most Chinese companies behave well, but there are small ones that want to make quick money against our own regulations. But if we compare the current counterfeiting with what it was 20 years ago, it shows our effort to adequately protect intellectual property. If a Spanish company tells us that their product is being copied, we take it very seriously and take action.