Encountering Antonio Banderas (Malaga, 1960) is not always easy. Not even for his agent. He doesn't hide, but it's hard to keep up with him between movies (currently in theaters with Babygirl), ambitious projects (like the Sohrlin performing arts space in Malaga), and stage productions like the one at hand.
Moreover, the path from the entrance of the Teatro Apolo in Madrid to his dressing room requires some skill navigating the backstage labyrinth of corridors. But in the end, everything is reachable. Even Antonio Banderas' dressing room, where he now, for the fourth time in his stage career, takes on the role of director.
Following its premiere at the Soho Caixabank in Malaga, Gypsy arrives in Madrid, one of the most famous musicals of all time with a script by Arthur Laurents, music by Jule Styne and Stephen Sondheim, and choreography by Jerome Robbins. It comes as a significant event with a cast led by the great Marta Ribera, Lydia Fairén, and Laia Prats.
The musical speaks about theater, success, women, a changing world, and why not, about Antonio Banderas himself. All rigorously current, despite taking place in the past, despite being entirely drawn from the perfectly real and excessive life of burlesque artist Gypsy Rose Lee. In reality, finding Antonio Banderas is not that difficult. Just step out onto the street.
The protagonist, Rose, does everything possible for her daughters to succeed. She is what you would call a stage mother. Are you also a stage mother?
Not at all. I let my daughters do their own thing. Stella more behind the scenes and Dakota doing her thing. I do not consider myself a stage mother at all.
Understood. This time, unlike the other three pieces he directs, the play is well known and even had a film version directed by Mervin LeRoy starring Natalie Wood. How much of a culmination of an old dream is this project?
It is all more complex, and the fact that the music is to some extent known raises the level of demand. Many songs became famous thanks to this musical and were eventually sung by Sinatra, Liza Minnelli, or Barbra Streisand. But what I believe makes this musical so great is the character of Rose. When Stephen Sondheim was asked about the work, he said that Rose is America. And she is because of the pathology she carries about what it means to succeed. For her, success is a disease. The anxiety she suffers is such that when she doesn't achieve what she wants, she becomes obsessed with her daughters achieving it.
Has the star Banderas also fallen ill from success?
Of course. All of us involved in this scene, now that the word has become fashionable, are touched by that relationship with success and continuous failure. It is part of our lives, and anyone who denies it is lying. But experience makes you change. But yes, success can be a disease and can be a very serious condition.
What is success for you right now?
Right now, success for me is doing what I want to do, how I want to do it, and with the people I want. In the past, it was conquering certain spaces or being in certain films or making it to the cover of certain magazines. But one changes, not only for reasons within the profession but also because of things outside of it that affect you. The heart attack I suffered changed me and redefined success in a different way. That heart attack made me ask myself, "What do I really want to do with my life?"
'Gypsy' is a story of women, just like 'Babygirl', your film with Nicole Kidman that is also currently showing. In both cases, they are women in charge of their destinies...
Yes, in fact, 'Babygirl' is not only a story of women but a very brave story of women that stays away from current trends. It is a mistake to believe that women's stories are exclusively a modern thing. In classic Hollywood of the 40s and 50s, there were very powerful women. I think of Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Susan Hayward, or Vivien Leigh. When you watch 'Gone with the Wind' now, beyond the current racial issues under discussion, what you see, above the character of Red Butler, is Scarlett O'Hara. She is that powerful woman who ends the first act with a radish in her hand. Or think of Joan Crawford in 'What Ever Happened to Baby Jane?' Or Elizabeth Taylor herself. All these women's characters are not isolated examples. Whenever I talk about women in cinema with Pedro Almodóvar, we talk about these women... And the character of Rose in 'Gypsy' fits perfectly with them. She has a part of Shakespeare's King Lear and another part of Bertolt Brecht's Mother Courage... I think of the character of Rose in Mervyn LeRoy's film version. Rosalind Russell is impressive (by the way, they had to lower the songs almost five tones for her to be able to sing them), but the one I really like is Natalie Wood. I love that she seems like an extra who wants to disappear and suddenly leaps... And why was I saying all this?
We were talking about the strength of female characters both in the musical and the film, and the question I was trying to ask is if we are truly, and finally, living in the time of women.
Yes, but in truth, it has always been the time of women. In 'Gypsy,' she is the one in charge, the one who, so to speak, has the male role.
I remember when you talked about 'Babygirl' in Venice, you referred to it as a politically incorrect film that is almost impossible to watch right now...
We tend to conform. We have a tendency to conform quickly, and that's where opportunities to be free are lost. And that is important. If there is something I liked about the experience of filming 'Babygirl', it was working with its director Halina Reijn, who is a very brave woman and who recognizes the value of current feminism but also maintains her own personality. And she made it clear. She told me, "Antonio, I fight for my freedom, and my freedom is sacred. I cannot be following anyone's slogans."
Another theme of the musical is a world that is fading, that of vaudeville shows. We are also there. Do you feel that the golden age of cinema is a thing of the past?
Yes, there is a certain parallel. 'Gypsy' talks about the last era of a vaudeville that moved on trains in a circuit, the Orfeo theater circuit, which offered musical numbers, magic acts, with children... Changes no longer occur by years, they are transformations that come every month. Everyone has a cinema at home, and the offer is so overwhelming that, honestly, many days I go to bed unable to decide what to watch. In the face of all this, the theater is a true refuge for me. There is an objective truth that is a group of people telling another a story to laugh, cry, be moved, or reflect. And that will never change. I remember once in Malaga, I finished singing a song, and a lady from the third row approached me and asked, "Are you really Antonio Banderas?" She didn't believe it. People no longer believe what they have three meters away because we are in a society where we don't believe what is right in front of us.
Talking about changes. Are you concerned about the change happening in the United States with the new presidency?
Of course. U.S. politics affects us all, and we are already seeing it. Besides, this man has come in like a bull in a china shop, he has had no subtlety. But deep down, I think it has been good that he has had such tumultuous movements because the reaction has also been at the same level. He himself has realized and seen that he can cause serious harm to his own people. In fact, he has already started saying that his is a long-term project. That is a sign that someone has told him to be careful. The real drama of all this is immigration. Until we acknowledge that it is a problem for everyone, not just Americans, there will be no solution. It would take a Marshall Plan lasting 50 years to compensate for all the damage the North has done to the South.
I can't leave without asking about Karla Sofía Gascón, her Oscar nomination, and the controversy over her tweets...
Oh, my God! It made me so happy to have another Spaniard there. It is very complicated for me to explain. I am Andalusian, and in Andalusia, we have forgiveness for every sin. If she has asked for forgiveness, I grant it to her. But anyway, I think they have also gone after her. There is a lot of transphobia.